Gottorah
Learn Hebrew Aleph-Bet
Gottorah Forum
Search Forums | Language
You are logged in as a guest. ( logon | register )
"G-d is a refuge and strength for us, a help in distress, always accessible" Psalms 46:2

Trust- Bitachon & Faith- Emunah
Moderators: Mimi, Kotel613

Jump to page : 1
Now viewing page 1 [25 messages per page]
View previous thread :: View next thread
   General Discussion -> SpiritualityMessage format
 
Zionist
Posted 12/10/2006 11:56 AM (#2909)
Subject: Trust- Bitachon & Faith- Emunah


Elite Veteran

Posts: 1178
1000100252525
Location: New Jersey
Can someone please expalin the difference (there seems to be) between Bethchan and Emunah? Can one have one without the other?
Top of the page Bottom of the page
kbrdplayer
Posted 12/10/2006 4:40 PM (#2924 - in reply to #2909)
Subject: Re: Trust- Bitachon & Faith- Emunah


Veteran

Posts: 186
100252525
Location: !!! mid-west!!!
Your question is answred by R Ephraim Waxman (an amazing speaker and sfrequent lecturer for the Chofetz Chaim heritage Foundation) is his series on Sha'ar Habotachon (in the sefer Chovot Havevavot).
Emunah (literaly : beleif) means trusting G-D.
Betachon is the trust that you HAVE in G-D.
Emunah is the theory, and Betachon is the connection that one HAS.

"Can one have one without the other?"
Emunah is the subject (it is not dependant on you). Betachon is what you may or may not have (YOUR trust).
To take a poll on Emunah and Betachon go to the Trusting G-d Thread
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Mimi
Posted 12/11/2006 2:40 PM (#2944 - in reply to #2924)
Subject: Re: Trust- Bitachon & Faith- Emunah


Extreme Veteran

Posts: 590
500252525
Ilana, I am trying to find a source that I remember being very helpful to this topic. I'll keep you posted on my sucess.

For a very concise understanding of the two concepts:

Emunah is conceptual, Bitachon is the application to day to day living
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Zionist
Posted 12/11/2006 7:54 PM (#2946 - in reply to #2944)
Subject: Re: Trust- Bitachon & Faith- Emunah


Elite Veteran

Posts: 1178
1000100252525
Location: New Jersey
Please excuse my ignorance on the "basics" with this question and thank you kbrdplayer and Mimi for the reply. If you find a sourse, Mimi I am still interested in learning more.
I have it all wrong...I think?
This is what I understood and why I come here to get the facts

I will use an example of what I see as Emunah: (faith?)

Ani ma’amim be’emunah sh’leimah (not sure if written correctly

I see Betachan as (trust?)

If I have faith then how I act on that faith determines my level of Betachan. If I do not act as if I trust in G-d, then my Emunah is not real? This may be a poor analogy...

This also causes me to wonder if we also have different levels of Betachan i.e,

I can know something in my head but am not moved much by what I know.
I can know something in my heart or soul that is a part of me.
Then there is the knowing or believing that is not just part of me - it IS me in a way that it is my identity and without it I would not exist or want to exist.

Am I making sense? OY! This is a difficult way to communicate!
So, I see we can have betachan but if it is not a part of us, we will lack emuna. Okay I am ging for a time out and leave this with ya'll to sort out. BTW, I think I sent more than one school teacher to counseling with all my questions


kbrdlayer said: "Emunah (literaly : beleif) means trusting G-D. Betachon is the trust that you HAVE in G-D."

Mimi wrote: "Emunah is conceptual, Bitachon is the application to day to day living"
Top of the page Bottom of the page
kbrdplayer
Posted 12/11/2006 9:22 PM (#2948 - in reply to #2909)
Subject: Re: Trust- Bitachon & Faith- Emunah


Veteran

Posts: 186
100252525
Location: !!! mid-west!!!
The best way to fully understand Betachon is to act on it. - You postred on my Trusting G-D poll, go and act on it.
Try to spend 25cents EXTRA on something for , let's say shabbos. Easy, It should be.
Now go down to the frozen food section of your locaol supermarket, and replace your shabbos chicken (at least that's what I eat) with steak. Now it starts getting hard.
You know that Gam Zu letova, everything G-D does is for the best. So when the line at the only open cash register backs-up halfway through the isle behind it, does it irritate you. You have to realy work on yourself to find wating in this line like a day at the beach.
There are great stories told about tzadikim who had unbeleiveable (it's hard to beleive the stories) levels of betachon. (it's all on the tapes- R. Waxman for the chofets chaim Heritage foundation)
Yes there are difererent levels. And just like every Nissayon (test) that G-D tested Avraham (Avram) with was harder than the last one, so too YOU can test your betachon. When it doesn't bother you at all (like-caring what the price of tea is in china) then you past that test, and grew to a much highere level.
Take a leap of faith!
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Mimi
Posted 12/13/2006 1:47 PM (#2963 - in reply to #2948)
Subject: Re: Trust- Bitachon & Faith- Emunah


Extreme Veteran

Posts: 590
500252525

Faith Vs. Trust

 

Emunah denotes the all-encompassing conceptual aspect of faith. This has been defined by the Rambam (Maimonides) as The Thirteen Principles of Faith, which are delineated below.

Emunah also includes the belief that G-d runs the world, and orchestrates every event, large and small. This is where Bitachon- trust, enters. Bitachon is the application of this belief.

The Chazon Ish (Rabbi Avrohom Yishayahu Karelitz, ZT"L) illustrates this concept with the example of a shopkeeper who felt he had mastered a firm faith that all comes from Heaven, by Divine decree.

One fine day, a fierce competitor bought the empty shop across the street, and proceeded to set out his fine, attractive wares, under the watchful gaze of our startled original shopkeeper. This shopkeeper began to wring his hands and feel the cold fingers of despair, the heat of resentment, overtake his spirit. What will be with his livelihood? How dare his competitor encroach on his longstanding turf?

So our "faithful shopkeeper" is now demonstrating that his application of the conceptual faith in G-d is deficient. He is "full of faith", until such time that it gets personal.

Emunah is an umbrella category of faith; Bitachon is a subcategory of the component comprising faith that G-d directs all facets of the world.

 

 The Thirteen Principles of Faith

 

1. I believe with complete faith that the Creator, Blessed is His Name, creates and guides all creatures, and that He alone made, makes, and will make everything.

2. I believe with complete faith that the Creator, Blessed is His Name, is unique, and there is no uniqueness like His in any way, and that He alone is our G-d, Who was, Who is, and Who always will be.

3. I believe with complete faith that the Creator, Blessed is His Name, is not physical and is not affected by physical phenomena, and that there is no comparison whatsoever to Him.

4. I believe with complete faith that the Creator, Blessed is His Name, is the very first and the very last.

5. I believe with complete faith that the Creator, Blessed is His Name- to Him alone is it proper to pray and it is not proper to pray to any other.

6. I believe with complete faith that all the words of the prophets are true.

7. I believe with complete faith that the prophecy of Moses our teacher, peace upon him, was true, and that he was the father of the prophets- both those who preceded him and those who followed him.

8. I believe with complete faith that the entire Torah now in our hands is the same one that was give to Moses, our teacher, peace be upon him.

9. I believe with complete faith that this Torah will not be exchanged nor will there be another Torah from the Creator, Blessed is His Name.

10. I believe with complete faith that the Creator, Blessed is His Name, knows all the deeds of human beings and their thoughts, as it is said, 'He fashions their hearts all together, He comprehends all their deeds'.

11. I believe with complete faith that the Creator, Blessed is His Name, rewards with good those who observe His commandments, and punishes those who violate His commandments.

12. I believe with complete faith that there will be a resuscitation of the dead whenever the wish emanates from the Creator, Blessed is His Name and exalted is His mention, forever and for all eternity.

 

Translation obtained from the Artscroll Siddur (prayerbook)


Top of the page Bottom of the page
Mimi
Posted 12/13/2006 2:34 PM (#2964 - in reply to #2963)
Subject: Re: Trust- Bitachon & Faith- Emunah


Extreme Veteran

Posts: 590
500252525
Ilana, the source that I referred to earlier provides a clearer understanding of Bitachon, trust. I "trust" you might find it helpful, and I therefore am sharing it below:

The following is a synopsis of an article written by R’ Gershon Taschman, Z”L (May his memory be for a blessing).

As noted in a previous post, Bitachon is the application of our trust in G-d. What is the nature of this trust? Do we believe that any situation will result in an outcome that is obviously good? Does worry about an outcome or the future indicate a lack of trust in G-d?

Rabbi Avrohom Yishayahu Karelitz, ZT”L (may the memory of this righteous one be for a blessing), also known as the Chazon Ish, a great 20th century sage rejects this notion. He explains that with the exception of Torah prophecies, “neither “good” nor “bad” must take place”. Bitachon, rather, is defined as the belief that there are no random happenings- all that happens is by Divine decree.

In worrisome, difficult, or dangerous times, it is often hard to remember that “chance” does not exist. Absolutely nothing prevents G-d from ensuring a favorable outcome, “setting into motion causalties” that can ensure rescue from difficulties. During difficult times, we strive for Bitachon by maintaining “an inner conviction that all” is Divinely orchestrated, whether for an obvious good, or a less obvious good which G-d deems preferable. One’s faith frees him from the bondage of belief that he is in the grip of a “natural chain of events”, and allows for the belief that a favorable outcome is possible. At the same time, it is helpful to understand that suffering, if indeed borne out, is from Heaven, and not a product of chance.

Someone who is a “Master of Trust in G-d” examines his ways and invests effort toward repentance, prayer, and charity, “to avert an evil decree”.

The Chazon Ish added that a true “Master of Trust” is more likely to be modest, and lives his days strengthened by his confidence in G-d.

This understanding of Bitachon is a joyous and encouraging position. With trust in G-d as the Divine Orchestrator of all events, coupled with the knowledge of our own power of prayer to invoke favorable intervention by our Creator, we permit ourselves to feel confidence and strength on the journey of our life.

Reference:
Gershon Tashman (1975) Jewish Observer, Summer edition
 
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Zionist
Posted 12/13/2006 6:31 PM (#2967 - in reply to #2964)
Subject: Re: Trust- Bitachon & Faith- Emunah


Elite Veteran

Posts: 1178
1000100252525
Location: New Jersey
Mimi - 12/13/2006 1:34 PM Ilana, the source that I referred to earlier provides a clearer understanding of Bitachon, trust. I "trust" you might find it helpful, and I therefore am sharing it below:
Bitachon, rather, is defined as the belief that there are no random happenings- all that happens is by Divine decree.


Thank you. This explains the "difference". Nope! Nothing by chance. Knowing this makes staying "in the moment" easier because we are more apt to see how past events have led us to the now and how things are Divinely unfolding. Sometimes it gets so difficult to apply this truth to my life. I just 
needed to make sure I was on the right track before continuing to "worry" about lack of either!

In his wonderful inspirational pocket size book(Buy Green Bananas) RabbiBerel Wein
has a unique way of teaching emuna and bethacon with dozens of short stories. He tells of
"The morbid “black humor” advice given older people is:
“Don’t buy green bananas.”
The reasoning for this advice is that one may not live long enough to enjoy them!

..."By having definite goals in our mind and heart, even if those goals appear initially to be far distant in time, we are able to add resources to our mental strength, and length to our years. Activity, mental and physical, is the key to productive longevity...."

He also refers to Schubert’s “Unfinished Symphony” as perhaps his greatest piece of musical composition.

I know, as well as I know how to breathe that G-d controls the universe and all that is in it. It is not so easy for me to remember He doesn't need a bit of help. In my head I know there will be much I did not get to do or complete, yet I get so frustrated, forgetting about things such as Schubert's masterpiece.

So, for now, I will try to gain more understanding on this topic and tomorrow when I go to the store for potatoes (latkes!) I will make a point of buying "Green Bananas".

Thank you Mimi and kbrdplayer for the time and material source. I am off to check out online audio on the topic.

OOPS! Edited to add: Mimi, thank you for posting the 13 Principles of Faith. This is a great way for the non-Jews who visit here to know exactly what Judaism is about.


Edited by Zionist 12/13/2006 6:33 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Shana
Posted 12/14/2006 1:14 PM (#2970 - in reply to #2967)
Subject: Re: Trust- Bitachon & Faith- Emunah


Member

Posts: 22

I've been thinking about this- it's a real eye opener.

Theory is so much easier than practice, I think I need to start small, like trusting that my day will be fine even if i don't finish everything on my list, or that my relationship with my kids will be good even if I don't buy them everything they ask for- as long as I do my part and be responsible (or maybe that's not such a small thing after all!)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Mimi
Posted 12/15/2006 11:55 AM (#2986 - in reply to #2970)
Subject: Re: Trust- Bitachon & Faith- Emunah


Extreme Veteran

Posts: 590
500252525
Ilana,

Just checking on the Green Bananas, and it you plan on using them as a side to the latkes! Brown bags are great for ripening fruit, and if you run out, you can always buy some more GB!


Shana,

You are so right that theory is simpler (or at least appears so) than practice; you are fortunate to recognize the challenge and strive to incorporate the practice in everyday routine.

Indeed, Judaism is a religion of practice; performance is inextricably bound with belief, lending our days a sense of purpose and accomplishment within the context of Judaism's clear expectations.

It sounds like your children have a terrific mother. May you be blessed with the perseverance to recognize G-d's Hand in all of your endeavors.

Happy Chanukah to all!
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Shana
Posted 12/17/2006 12:24 PM (#3004 - in reply to #2986)
Subject: Re: Trust- Bitachon & Faith- Emunah


Member

Posts: 22

"It sounds like your children have a terrific mother. May you be blessed with the perseverance to recognize G-d's Hand in all of your endeavors."

Thanks you Mimi!! I try, and I've grown alot from reading the threads on this site, which helps me as a Mom also.

Happy Hanukah to you as well, and thank you for such a great site, and the way you relate to everyone with such kindness and respect. I have learned from that as well!



Edited by Shana 12/17/2006 12:26 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Sandy
Posted 12/27/2006 8:00 PM (#3265 - in reply to #3004)
Subject: Re: Trust- Bitachon & Faith- Emunah


Regular

Posts: 71
2525
If I believe in all of the fundamentals of Judaism, but sometimes worry excessively, which is not a great representation of my trust in G-d, does that mean I need to work on my fundamentals, or the specifics of the trust that G-d is running every part of my personal life?
Top of the page Bottom of the page
kbrdplayer
Posted 12/27/2006 9:39 PM (#3269 - in reply to #2909)
Subject: Re: Trust- Bitachon & Faith- Emunah


Veteran

Posts: 186
100252525
Location: !!! mid-west!!!
One specifc trait, that is a tell-tale sign of lack of any betachon, is dispair(Orchot Tzaddikim). If you honestly beleive, that there is nothing that can ever help you, you honestly don't remember that G-D is watching over you.
If one only "sometimes worry[s]...", than then have not reached the level of utter despair. In adition, by the very fact that you involve yourself with torah and mitzvot, you demonstrate your Emunah, that there is a G-D in the world, and it is only because of him that you are doing these things.
In the same way that one must exercise to stay in shape, one must continuesly "exercise" this faith. We all need to "work out" our fundementals, if not to get stronger, than just to stay in shape.(and you seem to be doing a good job)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Jump to page : 1
Now viewing page 1 [25 messages per page]
Jump to forum :
Search this forum
Printer friendly version
E-mail a link to this thread

Registered to: Got Torah
(Delete all cookies set by this site)