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| "Do Jews believe in life after death?" |
Christian Jew.....finding my roots in Judaism....Moderators: Rabbi Y., Mimi Jump to page : 1 Now viewing page 1 [25 messages per page] | View previous thread :: View next thread |
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| joshiez |
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Member Posts: 5 | Hello all, Quick background. Half of my family is practicing Jewish, the other half is Christian. My Grandmother was the split....she is Jewish culturally, but didn't practice...her family retained the religion and culture. My mother who is ethnic Jewish married a Christian man.....so I was raised Christian. I believe and am involved in Christian ministries. I am completely comfortable in my faith and beliefs.... but I do want to recapture some of my ethnic Jewish backgrounds. I have been studying for awhile, and want to be more observant of old Torah customs and so forth. So, question for you all.....how should I start this. I almost always wear a hat, so I like the idea of kippah.....I want to get a katan and tzitzit....but what more than just clothing? any ideas? | ||
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| michael S. |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 767 ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Location: The Last Outpost | Hi Joshiez, Welcome, I'm sure you will get many replies here. A good place to start is Judaism 101, becoming Jewish, Chabad.org or one of many web sites out there. Michael Edited by michael S. 10/20/2008 3:37 PM | ||
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| Zionist |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 1178 ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Location: New Jersey | A thought-provoking title to your thread joshiez. What does it mean to you that you are finding your 'roots in Judaism"? You want to look Jewish but not practice Judaism? If you are practicing xtianity or anyother religion, you are not practicing Judaism even if you dress the part and master a few yiddish words. If your mother is Jewish and you are born a Jew, then you will be judged as a Jew regardless of what religion you follow. In other words, josh, ya can't mix 'em up. If you are comfortabe being xtian, the be one. If you "appear" to be Jewish to the world around you and you practice another religion, then think about the perception peple get about Judaism? Does that not matter to you? If you truly want to get back to your roots and they are Jewish, then the best thing is to speak with a rabbi who can help you untangle your belief system and learn what the scriptures really say according to the original text - not what man has formulated since they rejected Torah. ilana | ||
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| joshiez |
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Member Posts: 5 | Zionist, Thanks for the response....I guess this is what I am trying to get too....I don't want to just 'look' the part. I like certain ideas....wearing the tzitzit....that is in rememberance of G-d. I find comfort in ideas of covering the head in reverence. I know the religious aspect between the two religions....and I certainly don't mean to upset anyone, but I'm comfortable with my faith in Christianity. There is no question in my mind that Jesus is who he claims to be.... but there is this whole other aspect of my culture that I don't know as well. I've seen it through cousins, I hear it through family....That is where I guess I want to be. Perhaps more culturally aware than religious. but I don't want to downplay the spiritual aspect either. I know this sounds presumptious....but I want to have the customs and background that are ancestors to both my ethnic identity, and my Christian spiritual heritage. I hope that makes some sense. I plan on contacting a Rabbi near my home in Chicago and talk to him on this further. I just dont' want to offend...I'm not looking to convert.....just have a deeper understanding, appreciation and connection to the ethnicity and culture I was born into. | ||
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| michael S. |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 767 ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Location: The Last Outpost | Hi Joshiez, I don't think that you can even begin to find the true Jewish souls understanding as long as you are still looking at Life part II. Michael | ||
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| joshiez |
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Member Posts: 5 | Michael, are you saying, that since I'm Christian, I can't understand a Jew's soul? See, that I don't agree with. First off, I am Jewish. I understand my soul. (well....as much as my human mind can comprehend)......Jesus was Jewish, I'm understanding of where he came from. Plus, there are millions of Jews who don't know or care one bit for the Judaism.....so how is it that I can't understand? I like to believe I'm an intelligent man, well educated and very spiritual. Our Torah/Old Testament is nearly identical......we have the same ancestors.......I hope its not upsetting to you that I want what is mine. | ||
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| Zera |
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Veteran Posts: 221 ![]() ![]() | joshiez - 10/23/2008 12:14 AM Plus, there are millions of Jews who don't know or care one bit for the Judaism..... Unless you can substantiate that, it is merely your opinion.
Our Torah/Old Testament is nearly identical.. It is not. If you sincerely want to get in touch with your Jewish roots, simply work on understanding what Torah actually says instead of concentrating on merely "looking" the part. And there's only one way to do that: learn Hebrew. Otherwise, you're making assumptions based on multiple translations that are inaccurate, and you'll see why Judaism has withstood the test of time and will never die. | ||
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| joshiez |
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Member Posts: 5 | Zera, Thanks! This is more of what I'm looking for. A place to start. and your right...I didn't factually back something up....poor writing on my part. My bad. Is Hebrew the only language that is accepted to understanding Torah? Or is that the....'preferred'....way? I ask, because I know that here in Chicago you can find services that speak both Hebrew and English. Is that just for ease of communication? The language issue actually does interest me. There is always concern in the Christian community about the translations of the Bible, critical responses, translation issues....just a lot of problems with that. But obviously Jew's have lived all over the world and speak different languages...is the Torah always in Hebrew in these places? It certainly wasn't in the time of the Roman Empire. I know from Biblical Study that the Septuagint was used more than the Hebrew Torah....but was that just because of Hellenistic motives? Thanks for the suggestion Zera! You got me thinking! | ||
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| justified |
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Member Posts: 37 ![]() Location: north-mid-west | josheiz, just run along back to your Sunday school class and worship what ever idol you need too. Also I'd like to ask you if you believe in the easter bunny too. | ||
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| michael S. |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 767 ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Location: The Last Outpost | YES, I don't think you can understand without 100% living as a Jew. First off who is je'sus, this is a common name in many part of the world. It is my understanding that he was the product of murder and that the xians tried to cover it up by destroying the Torah, creating a part II to their story. If you have lived by the Torah, or at least tried to follow the Jewish Laws all your life and it hasn't worked for you then worship any idol you want to make you fell better. I believe that if you follow the Jewish Laws, observe the Holidays you wouldn't be here arguing a point that no one here believes, not likely to ever believe. Michael | ||
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| Zera |
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Veteran Posts: 221 ![]() ![]() | joshiez - 10/23/2008 1:13 AM Zera, Is Hebrew the only language that is accepted to understanding Torah? Or is that the....'preferred'....way The "English" translation has been translated from Greek. And the Greek was translated from Hebrew. And -- it was translated by xtians, thus certain words were translated to comply with what the xtians wanted to believe. Reading anything in its original language is always more accurate. As an example, take this sentence in English: Multiple translations of Torah often have problems with the meaning of words.
Next, I translated the sentence in an online translator into Greek: Οι πολλαπλάσιες μεταφράσεις Torah έχουν συχνά τα προβλήματα με την έννοια των λέξεων.
Then, I translated the Greek into French: Les traductions Torah multiples ont souvent les problèmes avec la signification des mots.
Now, let's translate that French back into English: The translations Torah multiples often have the problems with the significance of the words.
As you can see, the translations are not exactly accurate. And that's the problem with the English translation. It was translated from Hebrew to Greek to English.
But obviously Jew's have lived all over the world and speak different languages...is the Torah always in Hebrew in these places? In the death camps during WWII, many Jews of multiple nationalities were put together -- German, Lithuanian, Polish, French, and the list goes on. However, the one way they often had of communicating was in Hebrew. Thus, even though the native tongues of these people were different, they could pray together! Hebrew is what unites us, as well as being the original language of the Torah. | ||
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| joshiez |
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Member Posts: 5 | Justified, Michael..... I'm sorry that my surety in my faith bothers you. Please don't ridicule me for having faith. That isn't the point of this, and frankly....it doesn't bother me. Jesus said that non-believers would taunt and make fun of him....so all you actually do is further prove to me HIS validity. Don't mock...its very childish and unbecoming. Zera.... Thanks for the information. I do see your point with the Hebrew translation. I think I will look for some sort of guide to help me read through or start learning some Hebrew. It certainly makes sense. I was in the heavily Jewish section of Chicago yesterday, but I was a little intimidated to talk to others....out of hesitation from talking to people like the above posters......i don't want to be attacked....just have a good conversation. | ||
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| michael S. |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 767 ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Location: The Last Outpost | I guess I was totally wrong, you are just a xian jerk. If you need to get thumped on the back to inflate your head, do it yourself because you look like a joho the comes bang on the door claiming to have seen. People that bother me that are sure about their faith blow themselves up at bus stops or in shopping centers. Using your Jewish heritage to explore others is not allowed, go find a nice quiet xian web site and study all day tomorrow so you can be ready for Sunday dog section. I have spent my entire life out of a Jewish Community have never look to idols to pray. Oh, by the way if your afraid of being attacked don't come around preaching je'sus. Michael | ||
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| Zera |
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Veteran Posts: 221 ![]() ![]() | Hi Josh, Please try to understand one thing: Jews are a tiny minority in both the US and the world. According to the CIA (https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/us.html), the US comprises 1.7% Jews and the world comprises 0.23% Jews. There aren't that many of us! I and almost every other Jew in the world realize that part of your religion is to proselytize. We understand that all-too-well because it occurs frequently. So, we're constantly told (especially those of us who live outside of a Jewish community) how wrong our religion is and that we're going to hell because we don't believe. Truly try to imagine yourself in that situation. It simply becomes tiring when we're constantly challenged and belittled and often persecuted -- on nothing more than the fact that we worship Hashem as one whole entity. Thus, our patience grows thin when we are bombarded, especially on a Jewish forum, with others trying to "spread the word" of their religions. I imagine that we'd all like to encourage you to learn more about Judaism, but when you begin mentioning your own religious beliefs, your sincerity becomes questionable, based on our vast experiences with other non-Jews. Please just try to put yourself in our shoes for a moment. Since it's unlikely that you'll become fluent in Hebrew in a few months (or even years!), here's a suggestion for you to learn what the Torah says, if that's really what you seek. Read a translated version in English, with the Hebrew side-by-side, which is about as close to the real deal in Hebrew as you're going to get. A very reputable company (which whom I have no association, except as a customer) is www.artscroll.com. A few things you need to know: A Torah scroll, found in a synagogue, comprises five books: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. A bound book edition (of the Torah), which is what we'd read at home, is generally called a Chumash or Pentateuch. A Tanach (or sometimes spelled as Tanakh) comprises not only Torah, but Nev'im (the Prophets) and Ketuvim (writings). The Tanach is probably known to you as the "Jewish Bible." The Talmud (and there are various versions and names) is the commentary on Torah. When one of our mitzvot (commandments) says "No work on the Sabbath," the Talmud goes into great detail about what exactly constitutes "work." Thus, a simple reading of the Torah does not even begin to make us Torah scholars! Rabbis and other learned people spend entire lifetimes studying Talmud. However, a great start for you is to read the Chumash (Torah), translated about the best it can be done, by a reputable source, such as Artscroll. Hope this helps, Zera
Edited by Zera 10/24/2008 12:46 PM | ||
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| Mimi |
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Extreme Veteran Posts: 590 ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | Hi Josh, In your first post, you mention that you would like to recapture some of your “ethnic background”*. That is understandable. Donning the garments of a Jew seems a strange place to begin, though. It seems that you wish to take on the appearance of a religious Jew, and that makes me curious. *Judaism is not quite an ethnicity. It is a religion, and included a variety of ethnicities and cultures. | ||
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| Starjsr |
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Extreme Veteran Posts: 300 ![]() ![]() ![]() Location: Williamsburg, Brooklyn, NY | Hi Josh, Is your mother Jewish by birth or not (I couldn't figure it out from your post)? If she is then that makes you 100% Jewish and obligated to to adhere to the 613 Mitzvahs, otherwise if you are not jewish you have to adhere to the 6 Noahide laws. In either case you have to drop your belief or faith in jesus since that that goes directly against the Torah and God You can download some amazing lectures here: outreachjudaism.org Or read this amazing book: www.26reasons.com http://www.amazon.com/Twenty-Six-Reasons-Jews-Believe-Jesus/dp/0977193721/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1225146577&sr=8-1 | ||
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| passingthru |
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Veteran Posts: 150 ![]() ![]() ![]() | joshiez - 10/23/2008 12:14 AM Michael, are you saying, that since I'm Christian, I can't understand a Jew's soul? See, that I don't agree with. First off, I am Jewish. I understand my soul. (well....as much as my human mind can comprehend)...... Josh, I think what Michael is trying to say is that you are demonstrating that you don't understand or are perhaps have a confused Jewish soul since you claim to be Jewish, yet you worship someone other than G*d. Either you don't have a Jewish soul or if you do, you don't understand your own soul. Jesus was Jewish, I'm understanding of where he came from. . Jesus was indeed Jewish. He worshipped the Jewish God, and the Jewish God alone. | ||
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| Mina |
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New user Posts: 1 | Hello, everyone! I'm openly admitting I know next to nothing about Judaism, mainly due to the fact that I've lived in countries that are extremely biased and hateful against it (not saying I am, just saying that my dad's job means we move to countries that are like that). I joined this site because I'm really curious about this religion and want to learn more. Something someone said in above posts clicked in my brain and it made me think. Isn't Abraham considered the "father" of the three major monotheistic religions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam)? Not in the technical sense; that would be G-d. But wouldn't he be considered a link of some sort between those three religions? Why does each religion have to be mutually exclusive? I'm no expert on religion, but I think we're all worshipping the same G-d, but in different ways. Also, I'm not sure if this is true so don't hang me guys, but I read somewhere that the Supreme Court declared that Jews were now a race, if at least for anti-discrimination purposes only. I'm just wondering if I was the only one who heard about that.. it was a while ago, they may have changed it if it even happened. I'm with Zera on the whole translations thing; I speak three languages so I know that things get messed up frequently. If you're really interested in learning more about this then you should go to Israel and visit the landmarks there to get a sense of things. I've been to The Wailing Wall before; it's truely a magnificent site. Maybe it could help you? | ||
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| passingthru |
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Veteran Posts: 150 ![]() ![]() ![]() | Mina - 11/28/2008 2:30 PM Isn't Abraham considered the "father" of the three major monotheistic religions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam)? Not in the technical sense; that would be G-d. But wouldn't he be considered a link of some sort between those three religions? Why does each religion have to be mutually exclusive? I'm no expert on religion, but I think we're all worshipping the same G-d, but in different ways. Technically, you are right Mina. It's more than just a link. Judaism is the original, with Christianity branching off from Judaism and later Islam branching off again. The same G*d is the focal point of all three religions. It's a matter of details. For instance, both Judaism and Islam believe in a single G*d. To have a man (Jesus) put on an equal plane as G*d and worshipped as a god is contrary to one of the main ideas of the religion. As each of the other two sects branched off, religious beliefs and practices were changed. Some of these changes directly contradict the other religions. This is what makes them mutually exclusive. You can't say "I would like to convert to Judaism, but be able to keep worshipping Jesus as a God." Now add into the mix things like forced conversions, coersion and a divine order to convince others to join your brand of the religion, and you have a situation which makes it near impossible for utopian coexistance. At the very best, societies have been able to muster a weak tolerance for one another. | ||
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Christian Jew.....finding my roots in Judaism....